Who Owns Carlos Tevez?

The Times has a useful article this morning, which clarifies the Tevez situation . . . or at least I think it does…

Who owns Carlos Tévez?

West Ham United hold the player’s registration. Kia Joorabchian’s Media Sports Investments firm owns the economic rights to the forward.

Does Tévez’s transfer to Manchester United mirror Javier Mascherano’s move to Liverpool in January?

Yes and no.

How do they differ?

Liverpool signed Mascherano on an 18-month loan – at the end of which they have the option to buy the player permanently – after West Ham ripped up the player’s registration and gave up any rights to him to facilitate the transfer. Joorabchian, who owns the economic rights to Mascherano as well as Tévez, was paid £1.5 million by Liverpool as part of the deal. United have agreed a two-year loan deal for Tévez, with the option to sign the forward permanently at the end of that period, but West Ham cannot simply give up the rights to the player in this case to facilitate the transfer.

Why not?

After the verdict delivered by the independent commission into the transfer on April 27, when West Ham were fined £5.5 million, the club were given three choices. Either they stop playing Tévez, they bring the third-party agreement with Joorabchian into line with FA Premier League rule U18 so Joorabchian could not materially influence the club’s policy, or, finally, terminate its agreement with Joorabchian on the proviso that they would continue to behave in that manner and assert their rights over the player.

So what did they do?

Given that Tévez was central to the club’s hopes of staying in the Premiership, West Ham decided to terminate their agreement with Joorabchian and assert their rights over the player. As part of the agreement, West Ham would effectively have to answer to the Premier League regarding any future dealings with Tévez. Even if they wanted to, they could not simply terminate the player’s contract, but the decision left the club open to a legal action from Joorabchian for breach of contract.

So what has to happen to satisfy the Premier League before Tévez can join Manchester United?

United must strike a deal with West Ham for Tévez. That means that any fee – thought to be £6 million over the two years – would have to be paid to West Ham and not Joorabchian.

But couldn’t West Ham just receive a fee from United and then give it all to Joorabchian as compensation?

No. The Premier League would want to see that a “significant portion” of the transfer fee remained with West Ham and, given that it has power to scrutinise transactions over £25,000, that would be easy. Otherwise, it could be accused of trying to cover up the third-party agreements that caused so much controversy in the first place.

But what about Joorbachian? Won’t he try to sue West Ham if he does not receive some compensation for a player he holds the economic rights for?

He could, but it is likely that, somewhere down the line, West Ham will pay him a compensation fee in an out-of-court settlement, although that will have to be handled carefully.

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56 Responses to Who Owns Carlos Tevez?

  1. RMR says:

    It is interesting but weak on two key issues: (i) What happens after the 2 year loan? West Ham have a contract until 2010 remember and ManUre are reported to want an option to buy….and (ii) the idea that somewhere down the line an out-of-court settlement will occur – while time may help, the problem here lies in the undertakings West Ham gave and which my earlier (long) reply to your other blog entry dealt with. Basically, unless the FAPL relent (and they likely won’t unless they feel safe to do so) West Ham may be very constrained in when and how they seek to settle this.

    Kia also takes some big risks if he goes to court……

    Fun Fun Fun

  2. Joshua says:

    I dislike West Ham and want to have my 2 cents worth on your small time club.
    Let Tevez go.Let you talking be done on the pitch and maybe you would earn the respect of all other neutral fans. Stop talking about your “achievements” in winning last 7 of the 9 games.It was acheived by playing a player that still don’t belong to you.

    Your chairman Egg head is the most irritating and loud mouth in the premiership.Abramovich provided the dosh but lay low. Daniel Levy do his talking by great management.The Glazers are always humble about Man U acheivements.

    No decent players want to join West Ham willingly unless you offer ridiclous money. But that don’t work all the time, remember Mr Darren Bent.

    Your players are playboys and trouble makers; Ferdinand and Bowyer.

    Your had produced World Cup legends but never achieved greatness.

    Thats your lot and your Fate.

    Finally, Magnusson, Money don’t buy you love.Nor Class and Charisma.

    Go back to the championship where you belong.

    From a neutral premier league fans who love good football.

  3. Bradley tollbury says:

    FU*K YOU

  4. Andy says:

    Joshua, you’re an idiot. I think someone put your brain in backwards. And I think they forgot to upload English into it as well.

  5. johnj says:

    Nice to see some factual reporting of what we know has happened so far. The papers are again full of vitriol on our club – this time on how we’ve ‘plunged Tevez’s loan deal into chaos’.

    But, anyone who has actually read the PL’s April findings, Magnusson’s recent statments and the mere basics of contract law would know that no deal can be done without WH’s say-so.

    One point you could have emphasized though when you ask ‘But what about Joorbachian?’ – The April PL panel said that, in his view, the 3rd party agreement (the one Eggy’s ripped up) was unenforceable in English law as it amounted to a restraint of trade on Tevez. Now, we won’t know if they’re right until this 3rd party contract is tested in the courts, but Joorabchien would have to take the risk of doing that, and he hasn’t started proceedings yet, as he?

  6. Bill McGaughin says:

    I’ve been having a think about this whole situation involving West Ham the two Argentineans, their transfers, the lies, the Brown administration, the premiership in-fighting (club against club, not on the pitch) the whole sorry mess. Around the world there are many players who are owned not by the clubs they play for but by other individuals or other companies that are totally disassociated with the FOOTBALL clubs themselves; this situation is going to become more and more prevalent as people see young footballers with potential as a way to make money, in some cases millions if you’ve got a good eye. Therefore as I see it West Ham has done the premier league and all the teams in it a big favour. Why? Because they have unearthed an unexploded hand grenade, third party ownership, and it exploded in their faces. This was bound to happen sooner or later to some club or another the shame of it is it was our fabulous club that had to take the blast and burn injuries. Instead of hating us for what has happened we should be being praised and consoled

  7. ny hammer says:

    thanks for the information from the times , and for the analysis of it by others who posted here.

    interesting that all the posts were constructive,except for one potato head who can t spell, can t write ,can t analyze,can t think, in short , josh just can t .

    josh tries , but he just can t . which leaves him very sexually frustrated and sore in more than one place. will you have any money left josh after buying discounted ,not full-price ,ointment from tesco s? thats 2 lot s of course , one for your hand,or hamds , as you probably get tired all from all that effort, and one for downstairs.

    do you think your image has improved by revealing to the football public that you haven t had any in a decade or longer?

  8. like a rolling stone says:

    if the sun

    refuse to shine

    we don t mind

    WON 7 FROM 9

  9. 3/4 ENGLISH BREAKFAST says:

    2 CENTS JOSH? bit stingy- i d have thought a big spender like you could afford more than that .

    any chnace of you graduating from that studio flat in gulders green anytime before 2020?

    send us a postcard

  10. salty lox says:

    brush yout teeth joh- your breath stinks

  11. More questions than answers.. says:

    I still don’t understand how someone owning the ‘economic rights’ to a player works in practice ?

    1 – Who receives the player’s salary ? Does it go to Kia to take a cut, in lieu of the player receiving a cut of the ‘transfer fee’ which would have been paid ??

    2 – What does Kia get out of ‘giving’ his player to the football club since he is not getting the full market value for him

    3 – Is West Ham effectively just ‘leasing’ these players [ a bit like a ‘company car’ ] ?

    4 – Is Kia owning the ‘economic rights’ a bit like shares having a ‘beneficial owner’ who receives the dividends, even though they are held by a nominee company to simplify administration ??

    The whole thing does seem rather confusing – but the key question is what benefit or advantage a player like Tevez gets from all this ? I can’t see why a player would get any benefit from being ‘owned’ by a ‘media company’, or decide not to have his rights held by the club he is playing for – are there tax advantages to doing this ?

    Or is this one of those ‘Spanish Customs’ which has been imported here ??

  12. no easy answers says:

    spot on mate

    this whole concept of “owning the player s economic rights”- in actual practice what does that mean?

    is tevez meant to be a slave or an indentured servant ,in the 21 st century no less?

  13. Robert says:

    cheats never prosper they just dont get relegated.

  14. Fostie! says:

    Nice going Josh, insulting West Ham on a West Ham Fan’s forum, we have a genius on our hand’s!

  15. Joshua says:

    Bill McGaughin , West Ham is doing everyone a favor ?What are you at ?How about thanking terroist for the London bombing to show that the British intelligence are not working well.

    West Ham fans should be hanging their head in shame,keep their mouth shut and thanks their lucky stars that they are still in the premier league.

    West ham cheated.Period . The independent commission and THE REST OF THE WORLD think points should be deducted from you.

    Egghead have no sense of shame when he declared Tevez still belongs to West Ham.The premier league is run by incapable cowards who hide behind from moral obligations.

    Dave Whelan of Wigan is correct, its gross injustice and West Ham is the club many in the premier league wants relegated next season.

    Don’t rest easy yet, I hope Sheffied Utd don’t let the case rest.If more evidence surfaced that West Ham had deliberately cheated at the High Courts,the beginning of the end could come for you.Firstly ,the incumbents of the premier league would resigned.West Ham would automatically be relegated like Juventus when the High court rule in favour of Sheffied Utd next season.

    There will be still 3 relegation places but a striaght swap of division between West Ham and Sheffied Utd.

    Thats call Justice and I’m not even a Sheffied Utd fan.

  16. daveross says:

    This fascinates a lowly Brentford supporter looking forward to Dagenham and Redbridge away next season! As a slightly sideways look at this I have to ask what West Ham were doing “buying” Tevez and Mascherano in the first place? What do I think of when I think of West Ham? The university of football, somewhere young English players have always learnt their trade under a succession of intelligent English managers. No you weren’t going to win the Premiership and to be fair even with Eggerts money that’s unlikely but you held a place in everyones hearts.
    Last summers activity blew a hole in the side of the good ship West Ham, quality young English talent was blamed for a decline in fortunes and Tevez emerged from his early season slumber to finally prove his worth, almost too late. Now West Ham are spending big, losing that thing that defined West Ham in the futile chase for the top four. It is a problem that is killing the game for young English kids in this country and the fact that West Ham are now buting talent and not producing it (the excellent Mark Noble aside) for me is the saddest thing of all.

    P.S. Josh your an ill mannered poltroon, (look it up in your dictionary) try considered opinion and not inflamatory bullshit, cretin!

  17. Joshua says:

    West Ham University of football? losing that thing that defined West Ham ?

    I assume that you are thinking along the lines of Joe Cole,Frank Lampard, Rio Fedinand, Jermiane Defoe when you say that West Ham had “that thing”.When West Ham had those players they were relegated !How considered were your opinions, you deluded fool !

    University of football ? Its more like nursery than University.All the good players produced at West Ham flourished after they have left West Ham.Their “University” are at other clubs;Chelsea, Man U, Spurs. By playing with better players both foriegn and local.

  18. daveross says:

    Well, well , well much better Joshy. Look the point I was making was this. West Ham were one of the few clubs where young English players could flourish and they did fro years, long before the Cole, Lampard, Ferdinad era. Iwould like to hear if true West Ham fans feel this shift from their history, from what West Ham have always stood for sits easily with them. With so many foreign financial backers flooding the Premiership it would be good if some clubs took the long term option and continued producing future England footballers.
    Hang your flag to the mast Josh, who is your Premier League club? The lucky boys!

  19. Ahmed Nazir X says:

    This is the final nail in your coffin my friends.

    Your chairman has lied and cheated since you signed this world class player. It is now time for you to finally be brought to task for your wrongs. I for one will be glad when the authorities finally throw the book at you.

    Sheffield United (not my team) have been cheated out of a place in the Premiership and all the riches that brings. It will be very satisfying when you are relegated and they take your place.

    I do sympathise with the fans who have done nothing wrong. Your owners will perhaps learn to play fair next time…but I doubt it.

  20. Andy says:

    Ahmed Nazir X: Wrong again. The old chairman may well have lied and cheated. This one has had no reason to. Wasn’t even at the club when the Tevez affair began. Get your facts right or don’t come here again. In fact just don’t come here again. Loser.

  21. muhhamad ali says:

    get used to it naz . you weren t moaning when west ham went into freefall during tevez s first 6 months at the club. all the REBELS WITHOUT CAUSES sprouted only when we were dead and buried we shoved it down your throats

  22. michael jackson says:

    josh. try mixing coagulated blood with asswipe. it s approxumately your standard of hygiene and fits your budget

  23. shadow of josh says:

    what excatly has your team accomplished in the last 15 years?

    your legacy to football is a guy who promotes crsips , helping the UK have th worst cild obesity problem in europe. class act, that gazzy vinegar. and then there s glenn poodle , who lost the england manager s job because : a) HE WAS MEDIOCRE and b) he thought it was acceptable to publicly state his opinion that handicapped people are the way they are because it s god s way of punishing them. another class act

  24. gazzy vinegar says:

    hi. i m gazzy vinegar. i put my smug ugly mug on television all the time even though i m a boring middle aged piece of flatulence. i help promote child obesity in england by advertising crisps even though i m filthy rich and don t really need the money. i m proud of myself

  25. ny hammer says:

    well stated andy. naz is another well-informed ,analytically challenged numbnut.

  26. tiny tim says:

    josh , we re all dying to know – is your brain really smaller than your male sexual organ? we heard that was the case ,but preferred to get it from the horse s mouth.

  27. ny hammer says:

    josh, your club has never achieved anything. you personally have never achieved anything. neither of those are going to change anytime soon. your club c an be relied on for one thing- failing to hold a lead against arsenal time after time. your club can spend all it wants . you can personally spend all you want. nothing will change. as for “university” , you re in dire need of spending time at one because your reading comprehension and analysis skills are severely lacking. which wouldn t in and of itself be a problem , if you had manners. which you don t.
    your narrow existence is shrinking by the day .

  28. space cowboy says:

    had a productive day josh? accomplished much?

  29. Welsh Wizard says:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/l/liverpool/6270944.stm

    Good to see that a player of international standard on board at West Ham at last.

  30. B52 says:

    josh,instead of being one who likes to watch, have you ever considered particpating in life. or is that armchair that comfortable?

  31. ny hammer says:

    depends on how high your international standards are

    all west ham fans can hope for now is that your countrymen collins and gabbidon somehow manage to bring out the best in bellamy, which hasn t happened anywhere in the premiership to date. wish i could share your optimism .

    tevez,green,benayoun,parker ,noble ,neill ,collins- not a bad lot of internationals even if you take the first name off the list

  32. Welsh Wizard says:

    But I thought benayoun was being ‘swapped’ for Bellamy ? Or has that fallen through ?

    It’s got more twists and turns than East Enders..

  33. […] Who Owns Carlos Tevez? The Times has a useful article this morning, which clarifies the Tevez situation . . . or at least I think it […] […]

  34. HMS customs says:

    wizards belong in OZ, there are a plenty of twists and turns there.

    check your math by the way. 3.5 million vs 7.5 million in most societies doesn t qualify as a swap. then again, in wales ,anything is possible. must be that new “wizard” form of finance developed exclusively in wales.

    still.can t be too hard on the welsh, as we like james collins.

    sheer international class ,that bellemay though- capable of getting arrested in any country on any continent. bright end of career future ahead at swansea. or wrexham if he s lucky

  35. WHU4EVA says:

    JOSUAH’S A YID SCUM, JOSUAH’S A YID SCUM…LAH LAHA LAH LAH!

    WELL DICKHEAD, WAS EGG IN CHARGE WHEN TEVEZ APPEARED….UM NO, AND

    DO U KNOW HOW I KNO THIS, CUS I KNOWS MY STUFF AND I’M A LOYAL WEST

    HAM FAN, MORE LOYAL THAN ANY YID COULD BE…SO GOODNIGHT, AND FUCK

    OFF…THANX AGAIN YID SCUM

  36. Welsh Wizard says:

    HMS customs – you are so right !

  37. Delboyz says:

    The writing is on the wall regarding Tevez. There’s more to come out regarding ownership. Mark my words, about half way through the season we will be deducted around 10 points to keep everyone in the Premiership happy. There will be tears before the seasons out. As far as I’am concered we have had our punishment and just let us get on and play football.

    come on you “IRONS”

  38. INLAND REVENUE says:

    new season

    let s get on with it lads

  39. Joshua says:

    Ah… finally a Hammer fan with some common sense and moral sense. Delboyz, I raise my cup to you. Only if your chairman has the same sense of fair play.

    I have no sword to cross with hammers fans .You love your club as much as I love mind. I could go on and rub it in by what my team has done to yours on and off the field but I shall not. The issue here is not between 2 clubs.

    Cheating to get a unfair advantage at the expense of other clubs is sheer abomination.Setting ridiculous transfer fees and wages for players hardly deserving them are dangerous precedants and will moved the market towards implosion.Leeds gained infamy for that kind of behaviour, West Ham is threatening to be Leeds Mk II.
    Why resort to such unresponsible strategy to get ahead of the competition ?

    Bullying players into joining your club is nothing short of “rape”.Faubert want to join Rangers and Parker didn’t want to leave Newcastle. We take our hats off to the likes of Bent and Cisse for not bowing to that kind of pressure.

    I used to have a soft spot for West Ham as you play the right stuff. But now you throw it all out of the window by being a thug.

    What goes around comes around.Cheaters never prosper faced up to your sins soon.

    Can’t wait to play you guys…hope it would be as good as last season.

  40. ton of bricks says:

    you re in desperate need of pyschiatric help,or counseling of some sort,josh. classic case of OCD, obsessive compulsive disorder. you feel this constant need to try to prove your self-worth because you don t have any. no self-confidence ,no sense of purpose ,no self-belief- so what do you resort to, out of a lacl of any other options? finding fault with the opposition. all you do is expose your blatant insecurity every time you come on this site. we ve urinated on your chips for decades ,and we ll continue to. we made sure that you failed to reach the champions league.
    we denied you the opportunity to send us down, despite losing to you 4-3 ,because we outlplayed you in every way,shape and form over the last 9 games of the season when everything was on the line.

    you re easier to wind up than a digital alarm clock. perhaps this season we ll make eat those chips after we ve seasoneed them.

  41. bricklayer extraordinaire says:

    josh, save the sermons for your place of religious worship. you might have a slightly bigger audience,if they can manage to stay awake.

  42. Simon says:

    Hi Iain and fellow Hammers

    Firstly, looks like this site has been subject to the abuse I got on West Ham blog last week, I assumed it was from Sheff Utd supporters, but could be wrong. Some schools must have broken up early!

    The whole Tevez affair does worry me slightly, but I think the ball here is firmly in Kia’s court, if we do not play ball, he has the ability to go to the PL and attempt to ruin thigns for us, though my instinct is that a gentleman’s agreement was made between him and Eggy rather than anything contractual. Don’t be surprised to see Carlos go and us spend a large amount of money on another of MSI’s wonders, maybe that will keep everyone happy….

  43. green eggs and ham says:

    if the ball s in kia s court, it s the size and weight of the ping pong variety. unless of course he wishes to enter the justice of the peace court. unenforceable with a capital U. might work in iran- doesn t work here

  44. WestHamForever says:

    Just been reading some of the bullshit from Joshua.

    Joshua, West Ham did not get relegated with lampard and rio in the team. That’s just one example of the complete bollocks u’ve been talking.

    Also, u say we should do our talking on the pitch. We did, that’s why we stayed up.

    West Ham were punished for failing to declare all the details surrounding Tevez’s 3rd party ownership. He was, however, always registered to play and still is!

    West Ham have been punished, get over it!

    Oh and one last thing, fuck off to the forum of whichever club it is u support!

  45. beans on toast says:

    well stated mate- cheers

  46. Joshua says:

    Ah… thanks…good to ruff some feathers…to a club I learn to hate recently…Especially when you could only throw straws and 2nd grade insults.

    Anway, what do I expect, a 2nd grade clube deserves 2nd grade low lifes here…My girl has been away and its good to come here and shit…

    Have a good lIfe..hope you find life at the bottom easy next season…

  47. love and undertanding says:

    josh, yoiu are mentally ill. het some help, before it s too late.

  48. osgood says:

    I like josh. he talka lotta sense

  49. roasted pepper says:

    send him a dozen roses then

  50. Delboyz says:

    Joshua,

    I do understand what you are saying, but there are many clubs that are on the so called fiddle or bend the rules. West Ham have been caught and punished and that is the end of the situation. It’s the Premier League that has the problem not West Ham. As for our Chairman Eggy, he has held his hands up for other peoples mistakes and you have to give him so credit for that.

    The Wigan Chairman Whelan is overated a bit like his CHAV shops (JJB). Good at talking but has done nothing really to promote football, not like Eggy. Who I feel has been very honest and fair and wants to get the who Tevez affair resolved correctly. Even now as far as any documentation is concerned Tevez is still a WHU player according to Eggy. If he was not sure he would no stick his head out to be shot at would he? Stop reading the press and deal with the facts as I have already stated.

    As for me, I’am a fair, honest West Ham fan. Who adores the club and what it stands for and will always give an honest answer right or wrong. People who slag off West Han don’t realise what an amazing club it is just like the one you support.

    WHU 4 Ever………..

  51. rossi s vanilla says:

    well stated mate

  52. Trickywhu1 says:

    What we need is someone in the press to speak up for our side of the story, or is it not that easy IAN…..

  53. Andy says:

    Telegram to the FA. I am so over this Tevez affair. Nothing against the bloke who helped us stay up but this whole affair needs to come to an end and Tevez and particularly Joorabchian, who is now threatening the club he wanted to buy last year, need to go away and not darken our doors again (or for that matter anyone lese in the PL). STOP. Good luck elsewhere Carlos. STOP. This whole affair is the biggest pile of bullshit I’ve ever heard and has got to have had a major affect on our ability to attract and sign new players. THis whole affair whiffs of something fishy like Baldricks underpants. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE STOP.

  54. beans on taost says:

    exactly. it s boring now. he doens t want to be here- fine, it s now up to the authorities to figure out a way to get him out. it was a nice interlude having tevez , at least for the last 10 games, but now it s time for us to move on. life goes on without tevez,coker and benayoun. if players like these see their future elsewhere, that s there choice- we don t need them ,especially as evidenced by our performance the first half of last season. life goes on- let s get on with it .

  55. TomMaxwell says:

    West Ham can not simply rip up the Agreement they have with MSI and say Tevez is now our player.

    If MSI do not agree to ripping up the agreement then the whole deal with West Ham is terminated.

    West Ham are in a very difficult position and so are the Premier League; they have both screwed up on a grand scale and in public. Usually that means resignations. In West Ham’s case it also means Championship football in August unless they can stall things past the start of the season.

  56. ny hammer says:

    want to bet your salary on it tom?

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