Glenn Roeder: An Apology

In November I, in common with several others, questioned the sanity of the Norwich City Board in appointing Glenn Roeder as their manager. Using phrases like “Roeder comes up smelling of Canaries” and “I feel so sorry for the Canaries”, I may have inadvertantly given the impression that my views of Roeder’s management skills were akin to the attitude of a dog to a tree. In addition, I mistakenly wrote that his motivational skills are a bit rubbish.

I now realise that I was completely wrong on all counts, and that Glenn Roeder is a manager of supreme ability and motivational skills, which has resulted in an eleven match unbeaten run and City rising from bottom place to thirteenth place in the Championship. I now fully accept that his relegations with Gillingham, Watford and, er, West Ham were a mere blip on the road to his true destiny – taking Norwich City to the Premiership. I thank you.

Actually, I will give him his due. He’s got you out of the mire in a very short time. Kudos for that. However, we too were taken in by Roeder when he took us to 7th place in his first season with us. The next season he lost the dressing room and we were relegated. City fans shouldn’t count their canaries just yet…

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61 Responses to Glenn Roeder: An Apology

  1. Henry Williams says:

    My word, for a 78 year old you’re entertainly immature. And also one of the most uninspiring writers I’ve ever had the misfortune to read. You clearly have some kind of personal vendetta against Sir Glenn, and your refusal to admit how embarrassingly wrong you were after suggesting that the board had made a horrendous error in appointing Roeder is another huge dent in your shoddy self-obsessed journalism. Pathetic.

  2. Fish says:

    i think you were right the first time.

  3. Aaron says:

    To be honest Iain you’re still wrong and a sarcastic tit!

    Roeder has already done enough for Norwich. When he took over it seemed only a miracle would keep us up, now it seems only a complete disaster would relegate us. With 11 games unbeaten we are now one of the strongest teams in the division and although I’m a realist it is amazing that we could still make the play-offs by maths. So.. even if we don’t do much next season at least we aren’t in Division 1. I for one think we may be on to something, Norwich fans have had high standards in recent years and Roeder has hardly put a foot wrong so far. Enjoy Green, Bellamy and Ashton. On the Ball City!

  4. Gee says:

    You were right the first time, 11 games does not make a decent manager and his previous record is calamitus. Di Canio, Jo Cole, Carrick, Defoe, David James and Kanoute and still relegated. Unforgivable, sorry.

    However, Roeader has had enough practice now to start being good so maybe this is the start of a brand new future for him, you never know, just maybe.

  5. nails says:

    Henry, sort yourself out, stop trying to prove your intellect in your dodgy post, come back at the end of the season, you will still be in the chump’s League. Then we will still see if your still cheering on your Rodent! SO SAD!! I agree with you Iain.

  6. Cannydc says:

    More sarcasm, the lowest form of wit indeed. I love the way you blame the manager for ‘losing the dressing room’ as if the players (or at least a sizeable group of them) were not at least partly to blame… Of course, you needed a scapegoat, didn’t you ? Take a look at the clubs that you say GR failed at. Newcastle (next please, no manager alive could succeed there in recent times granted their political comings and goings driven by a wedge of dissolusioned fans), Gillingham – a club generally in decline for a few years now, and of course the mighty Hammers, who need a sign to show the manager where the dressing room is. You admitted he took you to 7th – that is how good he really is. Your team let you down, not him, in my opinion.
    On The Ball City. 29 points from last 14 games under GR.

  7. nails says:

    PS Aaron, asl the hammers fans and the crazy barcode boys from the north and they wil tell you Rodent IS not the miracle but is the disaster waiting to happen we have all been there, your just waiting for it to happen.

  8. Dan says:

    I had never heard of you before coming across your article and follow up apology. I can tell why. Not exactly brilliant, are you?

  9. Rob says:

    I thought this was supposed to be a column about West Ham, not Norwich City. Maybe you should start writing something that would interest your core audience.

  10. Upton Spark says:

    You seem to have touched a few nerves Ian!!
    As a former footballer,I for one would honestly say that Glen Roeder could not inspire me to go out week in and week out and give it my all.
    It is all down to the individual I suppose and some might be happy with Glen while others will find him irratating.
    Yes,Ian got it wrong earlier,but as he says;Watch this space.
    I hope for the sake of all Norwich fans that he can do a good job for you next year and it would be nice to see you back in the Premiership.
    I love Norwich,the City,the people and your lovely stadium.I don’t love Glen though.

  11. big dick sanchez says:

    Really do we care? You clearly have ballsed with the previous article but your big head seems that even in admitting you were wrong shows that you were actually correct all the time, amazing!

    You can keep predicting his downfall for as long as you like and one day you will be right, however that remains the case for all managers.

    As for his gestures, I would act like that if some vile cockneys had just made fun of my brain tumour. Try blaming your board for no giving him any funds to spend and making him rely on a good but very young team.

  12. ourmanwhere says:

    I seem to recall he has a track record of finishing seventh in his first year and getting relegated in his second. Newcastle were particularly worried when he achieved this place with us.

    Luckily we broke the chain, however, he was still a disaster in that second year and didn’t hang on to his job.

    Having said that he is a nice man and is certainly talented in some respects. I think he’d make an excellent general manager for a club and our youth team certainly benefitted when he was in charge of that area of our club.

    His record and ability to get the best out of teams initially does suggest that he is bright and insightful but lacks strength of character.

    Once players start to undermine him he doesn’t appear able to win a battle of wills.

    Good luck to him and Norwich though. Despite his ulatime failure at Newcastle I think he’d still receive a warm if he ever brought a team to play at SJP.

  13. Col says:

    Dear Norwich fans. Yes, O.K. Roeder has done a great, no lets call it a fantastic job for you this season, there is absolutely no way of getting round that and good luck to you, I like the inbred carrot crunchers among you.

    However, your adulation will be short lived I’m afraid. Nest season he will rlegate you so make the most of this season and enjoy your time because after that you’ll be doing a ‘leeds’. Sorry and I know the truth hurts but it will happen.

  14. nr2iron says:

    Imho i think he is a decent coach but just about anyone can manage in their league for a short time,lets see how happy they are at the end of next season when without doubt they will not be in the top 6 which they all think is horses for courses.

  15. Glenn Roeder says:

    Well, at least you have started spelling my name correctly – in your rant in November it was spelt Glen.

    Oh, and did I get relegated with Gillingham? Must have missed that…

    Still, West Ham never were ones for letting facts get in the way of a good moan.

    You silly little man.

  16. Bill, Sydney, Oz says:

    In 73 matches in charge at Newcastle Glenn won 45%. Only two post-war Newcastle managers have done better. But if it helps you compensate, Iain, for your mid-life crisis then go ahead and get your feel good by rubbishing a better manager and player than you could could ever hope to be.

  17. Mike says:

    Roeder managed to get a team with about 5 england internationals and Paolo di canio relegated.

    He then went on to make a mess of newcastle and numerous others.
    His stupidity is matched only by his conceit – I think he called relegating a team (that had players far in excess if those available to curbishley) “in off the post”

    well your on a decent run and as norwich fans your expectations are naturally lower than ours.

    But Roeder is, was and always will be a man that while its going well does well….
    When a bump in the road is hit, he balmes it on others causing resentment and anger and a bad dressing room….

    He dropped dicanio at west ham… Brought him back and paolo almost kept us up…

    when you hit a bad patch, watch otu for the folowing…

    1/ good players dropped
    2/ lack of motivation
    3/ Lots of pointless walking around the technical area looking clueless

    and the inevitable spiral that follows…

    OH and PS we had all this from newcastle fans when he started quite well there…

  18. West_Ham says:

    I quite like Norwich as a club and no-one can question Roeder’s achievements so far. But although he has matured considerably as a manager since managing West Ham it is never easy to forget the contribution of complete incompetence that he made towards our relegation. He wasn’t the root cause but he played his part.

    I hope Roeder does succeed beyond the first season at Norwich but history suggests that if he does then it will be a first. This fact should be enough for all Canary fans to wait another year or so before blowing there own trumpets.

  19. Sam says:

    in reply to aaron,

    thats how we felt when we finished 7th

    wooops

  20. Tom says:

    Iain, you have let the club and the fans down on this one, Roeder never got the backing financially after getting us to 7th. His injury list the following season was akin to the one we have this season. He was a loyal servant to the club regardless, you’re comments put you in the league of that idiot up at Blackburn.

  21. Biffo the bear says:

    I think he’s done well at Norwich, which is a great club. In the first season at West Ham, it could be argued, he inherited his squad but still did well, getting us to 7th.
    2nd season, as we all know, did not go so well as that same squad fell apart with many players, I believe, having decided very early on that, whatever happened, they were on their way out of West Ham United.

    He’s obviously learned a lot since then and I wish him every success in the future. He will never be welcomed back at Upton Park though as his time there will always remind us of our slide into the fizzy pop league.

  22. Hinsdale Hammer says:

    I’ll give him 2 years max

  23. Mac says:

    10/10 for a truly horrible and sarcastic post. Thought you were better than that Iain.

    Glenn, like everyone else, deserves a break. While he might not have led us to great heights, he certainly tried his best. No manager ever wants to fail.

    Perhaps Norwich will see the best of him and if they do, good luck to the guy.

  24. dave says:

    Iain who ??

  25. Jt says:

    Good post Iain. Good to see somebody with a bit of sense around here (not mentioning any names, Mac, Tom, Henry Williams and the bloke who thinks he’s Glenn Roeder) I still feel sorry for Glenn, what with his illness and all (does nobody remember that?) I believe that if he had be given the chance with us in the championship, we’d have been promoted first season down! I’m looking forward to reading your next post Iain!

  26. Bungles Finger says:

    You only have to look at the improvements made under Sir Trev when Glenn was, unfortunately, taken ill during the last few games of that season. I’ve nothing against the man as has no-one else here, but it doesn’t look like he can hold enough authority to inspire the squad when it’s really needed.

  27. east of hampstead says:

    Another nasty post from Iain Dale, and just as unpleasant as the original.

    What is interesting is the hate reserved for Roeder, as though he took West Ham from being Champs Lge to Ryman Southern in successive seasons.

    All he did was get them relegated, and Hammers fans with a sense of history and perspective will realise that club legends with unsullied reputations have also achieved this feat (John Lyall (TWICE!) and Billy Bonds).

    The bile heaped upon Roeder is a sad reflection of the hype and ‘instant success’ culture of modern-day football. And the advent of knee-jerk bloggers like Iain Dale will only perpetuate this tragedy.

  28. Feisty says:

    Possibly the most amusing thing about this blog is the page theme indicated at the bottom of this screen.

    Contempt indeed!

    It always raises a smile around here though when those who fail so dismally in their own field and need to resort to sarcasm try to have a pop and can’t back down when they’re proved (even by their own fellow fans) to be so very wrong.

    When you are half the success that Glenn Roeder is Iain, perhaps your views may be held in higher esteem?

    Until then I’d mind my own business if I were you. Bitch about your own club man, lord knows there’s plenty of dirt there…

  29. Midlands Canary says:

    West Ham. The great sleeping giant ! What exactly have you done in the last few years ? Apart from coasting mid table in the premiership. Oh and stay there after some questionable legal transactions ?

    This is not exactly witty journalism is it. Saracasm can be funny in the hands of a good writer.

    Lets see what happens over the next couple of years.

  30. Canary1 says:

    Hate to be a perfectionist Mr. Dale, yet you seem to struggle at your own job, so I fail to see how you can criticise someone who has so far been much more successful than you in their own area.

    You lost your seat (what a shame!) in the local elections I believe – some achievment for a Tory in the region you stood – and struggle immensley to write what would even be considered an average article. You seem to believe you are funny, yet you are far, far from it.

    The quality of this article, and other Iain Dale articles I have had the great misfortune to read, is frankly poor. Perhaps if you had even an element of writing ability, then you MAY have made this blog interesting and humourous, yet sadly (although amusingly to many I am sure) you do not.

    Finally, I’m sure you’re embarassed to recieve such a question, but…who are you exactly? Only I’ve never really heard of you…I bet I’m not the only one.

    Don’t give up the day job – which you appear to be just as much a failure at.

  31. Col says:

    Ohhhhh, Iain, I think you’ve hit a nerve there somewhere.

    With a bit of luck Leeds won’t get promoted this season or next and you will get to play them in divvy one when you are relegated next season. We know, we´ve been there seen it and done it.

    Anyway, where is Norwich?

  32. Andrew Nickerson says:

    I’m sorry; we don’t accept criticism at Norwich City Football Club by a club that would be our opponents right now if not for the FA bottling out of making the right decision.

    Come back when you earn back your honour.

  33. brooking is still the best says:

    I for one will or can not ever foregive the Rodent for taking the most talented team ever down to the Chumpionship.

    The Rodent is a fool! If you think he is anything other, then your also a fool

  34. vdm says:

    Glenn Roeder as many have said is a decent man I think and good luck to him at Norwich. He was in some ways ‘lucky’ to finish 7th with us – if I remember that year there was nothing between 7th and about 14th. We won alot of games by the odd goal that year and lost many of the equivalent games by the odd goal the following year. Having said that there will NEVER again be a team gets relegated with the talent that was in that side.

  35. Stow says:

    I think everyone’s missing the point here!

    The original post was itself unnecessary and the recent retort is quite frankly unbefitting of someone who classes himself as a ‘journalist’.

    Surely you’re better than that Iain?

    It’s a sad day indeed, when it’s necessary to tell a middle-aged man to grow up.

    Lets leave the ‘my teams better than your team’ insults to the playgrounds hey lads?!

    That is unless you are all 12 years old?

  36. nr2iron says:

    Fao-midland canary,about the sleeping giant,yes we are and hopefully are at last going to achieve the ambitions our support deserves,on your visits to the fine city open your eyes to the claret and blue walking its streets.

  37. Job says:

    FAO COL.

    Q: Where is Norwich?
    A: Where your three best players came from.

    Here’s a question for you, what do Ian Fail and Dean Ashton have in common?

  38. Peter says:

    Andrew Nickerson,

    Come back when you learn a bit about football. It was the Premier League who fined us, not the F.A. It had nowt to do with them. But then you wouldn’t know that would you, having not been anywhere near the Premiership in many years.

    Good luck with Rodent, you’ll need it.

  39. Aaron says:

    Many people seem to be missing the point, Roeder I’m quite sure was brought in my the board to keep us up which, touching wood, he has. When he arrived we were for want of a better word, fucked, so the very fact that we can still talk about the possibility of Norwich challenging for the play-offs this season or the next is down to a very astute decision by our board and amazing form by Roeder. I really don’t think he was appointed as a long term solution but lets see how it goes, because you can not predict football.

    As for the rude comments about Norwich it shows no intelligence, you obviously have not had the pleasure of visiting our fine city.

    And Mr Dale there are many posts of this board writing by your average Joe Blogs which are more articulate, accurate and intelligent then your original post. Perhaps journalism is not your thing?

  40. Iain Dale says:

    Bit chippy this lot, aren’t they? For the record, I am not, and never have been, a journalist. I am an opinionated commentator. So by definition, if you have opinions, you’re going to upset people who disagree with them. Get over it.

  41. WHU Kim says:

    Iain, I think you were ill advised to pander to a few posts from Norwich fans on your original threa. Why ressurect it by posting this? All it has done is encourage more keyboard warriors onto the site and whilst you might find the kind of comment JOB has posted on your original thread about West Ham fans amusing I don’t.

  42. Bill, Sydney, Oz says:

    Iain, you’re telling us to “get over it.” My God, there’s a case of the kettle calling us pots black!!

    You’re the one who needs to get over your obsession with Glenn Roeder. I know that if you asked him he’d want to apologize for all the harm he’s done to you personally when WH got relegated, for all the angst you suffered at the office, for the feelings of personal inadequacy that relegation added to your already existing and barely hidden feelings of inadequacy.

    One of the things we’re having difficulty “getting over” is the evident pleasure it gives you in knifing Glenn. Have you noticed how the people who act nasty, vindictively and sarcastically are the very damaged goods that they pretend others to be?

    As I wrote before, Glenn had a 45% winning record at Newcastle. That would get you seventh place in the Premier League.

    But don’t let details like that dilute your venom: you just keep on throwing bricks through his window.

  43. east of hampstead says:

    Make your mind up Iain. You crave the respect of being viewed as a serious journalist (“political writer and commentator” says your biog) yet when you are proved wrong you resort to the cover of considering yourself a blogger. Maybe the good folk of Maidstone and the Weald should be warned that they should not consider appointing as candidate a serial political failure like yourself – or would that be spiteful and unjustified?

  44. NCFC fan says:

    Dear Hammers, and Canaries,

    There’s no point in grudging against each other when we have so much in common and so much to talk about: we have Green, Ashton and Bellamy and now Carrow Roeder and Iain Dale, whoever he is. And although our valuation of these distingushed gentlemen may slightly differ every now and then, this fact only adds excitement to these dialogues. It is only natural to to follow-up the careers of some that have “flown from the nest” — as we do with Green or Ashton . So such debates should rather be the beginning of a wonderful friendship. (Music.) (Music fades.)

    About Roeder:

    As I read in many of your posts, he earned some bad ponts by confronting and sidelining stars, like DiCanio and maybe others, but some of you also mention him handling young players well. Bearing that in mind, Norwich might be more suitable for him, as apart from the slightly ageing Huckerby we don’t have many stars to alienate, (Dion Dublin at 38 is bullet-proof) — nor do we have many players over 25 — which fact may play to Roeders’s strengths.

    While I realize that most of WH fans have mixed or negative memories of him, almost everything he touched in NC have turned into gold. At least SO FAR. Inheriting a side that was all over the place, he axed and sold some players quite ruthlessly, brought in mostly young and hungry loan players (surprisingly enough, all of them have proven to be quite useful additions!) By doing so, he improved the form of our remaining players, especially defensively. (Maybe we could still find a place for a WH target man should you wish to loan any out…)

    So while on the short run it’s hard to find fault with him, on the longer run — only time will tell.

    In the meantime, good luck to WH, don’t take your foot of the pedal and keep your football entertaining!
    (cheers, more music, fireworks)

  45. Josh Christie says:

    Interesting that you still haven’t gone back for saying his behaviour towards West Ham fans was unacceptable.
    A gesture can’t really hurt them, how hard is it to take. Nearly caused a riot did it? You should have been having a go at the West Ham fans for being so immature so as to react to a gesture, not to Roeder.

    How about the behaviour he got from West Ham fans? please answer this. Was that absolutely despicable, vile and completely out of order. If not…how so?
    and if so, how was his little gesture unearnt?

    “I am an opinionated commentator. So by definition, if you have opinions, you’re going to upset people who disagree with them. Get over it.”
    OK, so what’s the point in having a go at us for disagreeing?

  46. Pat says:

    Watford finished 7th relegated…
    gillingham finished 7th relegated..
    west ham finished 7th relagated…
    newcastle sacked….

    The brilliant thing about Norwich fans is that they are so absolutely oblivious to what is going to happen, he gradually loses the respect of the players..is so tactically inept it is embarrassing (playing with 4 natural centre mid-fielders causing us to be so narrow accross the park exposing our full backs)..he has done it at every club he has been at, when people are desperate anything that is an improvement on there current situation is deemed a miracle…

  47. mac says:

    Pat, where did you get your stats from? I was intrigued by them so looked up Roeder’s history. My stats say that:

    At Gillingham Roeder was only there one season, (92-93), narrowly avoiding relegation.

    At Watford, he was sacked in February of his second season; it was in fact Graham Taylor who took them down.

    Which only leaves West Ham where he finished seventh and got relegated in the second season.

    Which doesn’t make your stats look so neat.

    No-one knows what will happen in the next game, let alone next season, so it’s seems a little silly stating that Norwich fans are ‘so absolutely oblivious to what is going to happen.’ The fact is he took over when Norwich were bottom, four points adrift and they’re now 13th, unbeaten in eleven games.

  48. Plaistow54 says:

    Won’t make the play off’s. Too many draws. Hope they do well. Best wishes to all our feeder clubs.

  49. brooking is still the best says:

    I have nothing against Norwich, “Let’s be aving ya” and all that, but I hope Norwich is his last mangement job in football!
    Rodent should have never got the post at West Ham, made a balls up of it, then unbelievable went to Newcastle, fcuked that up and the got the chance at Norwich.
    He has been sacked more times then a postman, and no doubt been made a very rich man by the pay offs each time.
    Only in football could a failure like the Rodent be so richly and so undeservedly be rewarded like he has.
    He has got to be the worst manager ever to disgrace the English game!
    Apart from that, he’s alright.

  50. mac says:

    Brooking is still the best: you’re all heart mate.

    Unbelievable.

  51. Col says:

    F.A.O JOB

    Who is Ian Fail?

  52. Richard of Wimbledon says:

    Iain and his fellow hammers fans;
    there is a little, dare I say irony (pardon the pun), in all the hammers fans getting rather agrieved at the apparent reaction of Mr Roeder at Upton Park on a revisit. However I can not help thinking that Mr Dale himself is trying to insight a reaction from the followers of Norwich City with his comments in a previous article. Not to mention the sarcastic ones in this.
    May I also remind Mr Dale, that if he is a political writer, surely his views should not be offensive, but insightful and costructive (not child like ‘tit for tat’)
    We must all remember that managers come and go, some are good, some poor. Fans will always have an opinion…but people who write articals for many to see should respect all prying eyes that read with interest.
    So in short Mr Dale….GROW UP !!
    OTBC !!

  53. Will says:

    No physician is really good before he has killed one or two patients. ~Hindu Proverb

    However badly glenn did at Newcastle and West Ham, his managing style has changed dramatically – he has more passion and verve than he did before. He has done a good job so far, I appreciate that not all WH fans are bigoted fools, and i know we have a fair few around our neck of the woods – but please leave off glen, he has done wonders for us – many doubted Wenger’s judgement on a few of his relatively unknown african signings – he is a good judge of character he has shown, now consider his praise of Glenn.

    I am not picking fights – i am asking for time, for glenn and ourselves, without learning from mistakes no-one can gain in any talents – something to think about before pushing your neck out and lambasting someone rather quickly.

    Thanks for your time 🙂

  54. bob says:

    The question really is can a man less talented than a cabbage in a blue rosette manage to have a incorporate facts into hisopinion about anything.

    I think that the answer has been conclusively proved as a resounding NO.

    Anyway I don’t care what you guys think on managers skils, I mean you thought Peter Grant was good! If it was a straight up choice between Grant or McLaren for England, I’d pick McLaren everytime and consider myself blessed!

  55. tommy2010 says:

    Haha- I commented on your previous article before actually reading the link to this update- unlike others I enjoy a bit of banter so am not about to slate your ‘sincere’ apology!

    However may we point out that GR’s 7th place finish is about the pinnacle of what West Ham have ever achieved in recent years… No to mention Newcastles 7th place finish too… I can hardly see ‘King Kev’ accomplishing anything near that this time round at that God-awful club…

    so GR is inconsistent but hardly a failure on all fronts- sounds like you need to do a bit more research my friend…. Also noticed how you suddenly remembered The Hammers 7th place finish under him on this later article only- a convenient memory lapse in the last article to prove a point? Or were you just repeating what a few of your mates said about Roeder down the pub…

  56. WiltsCanary says:

    You lot need to get out more.

    I am not concerned by his record at past clubs. With the same squad of players he has turned around a club that could not manage an attack let alone score a goal.

    The side were going in one direction and that was down. Since GR came to the side the same team are organised, motivated and look like a TEAM.

    WHU went down under poor management but also players who thought that they should be at bigger and better clubs and they are now – how strange.

  57. CanaryLogan says:

    FAO Bob….

    Erm, I’m a life long Norwich fan I can say without any hesitation that after only a few games in charge, NO BODY thought Peter Grant was any good. Maybe the board did, but certainly not the fans.

    Anyway, good to see Ian make himself look a complete tit twice in only a matter of months. For a grown man, and an aspiring politician, your comment really do make you look childish. If this was high school you would be the kid picking on the weaker lads, and i’d be the one making sure you knew what it was like to get picked on by flushing your head…..

    On the ball City, and well done to Roeder. We like you, we are happy with you’ve done for our club, and the opinions of bitter West Ham fans mean nothing to any of us. Just makes for a jolly good laugh on an otherwise dull afternoon…

  58. Roeder is God says:

    Its simple:

    we have the God that is GR, & you dont!

    GR is #1

    Enjoy your relegation fight, and weep in your pie ‘n’ mash and jellied eels!

    Oh, ps……………..CHEATS!!!

  59. crazyhorse says:

    Better and bigger clubs now? what tardis you been on wilts

  60. Roeder 4ever says:

    You can’t even admit your wrong now! You can’t criticise the bloke because he has performed miracles. You are saying it will go wrong next season but as illustrated by your last article your powers of foresight are slightly flawed! At least the guy has had a lot of success and not thrown away safe Tory seats!

  61. Ed says:

    Iain was right, wasn’t he?
    Roeder OUT, please!!!!
    OTBC

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