The Steve Kabba Question

A reader writes…

A question.

In a response to your Icelantic Banking crisis, Doc H Ball asks why West Ham have not pushed the Kabba affair. I have the same question.

We are alledged to have had a clause (unused) that could have been enforced by a third party. This did not happen, and we were fined £5.5m. In the eyes of the arbitration committee, this lead to a three point advantage.

In the Steve Kabba affair, it was supposedly on the SUFC website and also in the Watford programme notes that the clubs had agreed he would not play. This is not potential third party influence, but actual influence. Yet, no action is taken. Surely, this is worth more than a 3 point deduction.The result was a win for Sheffield United, so if the points are removed, then this would negate the so called arbitration result.

So the question! Why are we not pushing this and using it to mitigrate the current action?

Any enlightenment would be gratefully received.

Indeed it would.

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42 Responses to The Steve Kabba Question

  1. Hornchurch hammer says:

    If you read the KUMB.com forums you will see that it still is on the Watford forum archive & there is also a link to the internet archive that shows it on the Sheff Utd website, one word HYPOCRITES

  2. Dave says:

    Totally agree. Also what about the Scousers fielding a weakened side against Fulham and thus contravening Premier League rules. West Hams board should grow a pair and tell Mcabe where to get off

  3. WHU Kim says:

    I think the PL did look into this at the time but Watford confirmed nothing was written into the contract so nothing further was done. So in effect we had a gentlemans agreement not to play him. Similar also I believe to the Tim Howard case. Still against the rules of course. However this gentlemans agreement is what likes of McCabe and the Wigan Price Fixer are now claiming we had for the last three games and should be further punished for. I think everyone agrees that West Ham’s behaviour was a disgrace but it’s now become apparent that the comments and allegations of McCabe and his sops are equally bereft of credibility. Why should a club be punished further for something that didn’t actually take place when other clubs go unpunished for something that in all likelyhood did take? The fact one of these clubs happens to be the same one attempting to extort huge amounts of money from West Ham just shows how morally bankrupt they are. Remember their campaign was all about Justice according to them. I think most clubs, fans and media are getting a bit leary of what they term as justice now. Sheffield United fully deserved to be relegated because on the pitch they were not good enough. They can’t blame Tevev for their own players bottling it during the run in or Jagielka sticking his hand up in the penalty box in the final game against Wigan. Remember those journalists who printed that they would be happy if Wigan and Sheffield United fixed the result of their game in order to relegate West Ham. These same people have the nerve to continue to call us cheats? You couldn’t make it up could you.

  4. Jon says:

    Yep, there was an agreement between SUFC and WFC that Kabba wouldn’t play. That’s 1. SUFC and 2. WFC – that’s 2 clubs. This agreement happens throughout football (except if WHU, Fulham and Boa Morte are involved when WHU agreed and then ignored it). So, since third party influence is not allowed, how is the playing of Kabba relevant at all? It is a poor attempt by Fatso Samuels to muddy the waters. The waters WERE muddy but happily now they are crystal clear. WHU cheated, got caught and were punished with a warning. They then cheated AGAIN and it’s time they were punished again. Given the Luton/Rotherham/Bournemouth etc situations 30 points should do it with £50M going to SUFC. Once that precedent has been set then Fulham, Bolton etc will also be due compensation.

    It’s so obvious it’s ridiculous that you lot don’t get it. The only reason is that you don’t WANT to get it because the truth hurts. Cheats always get caught and now you should suffer the consequences.

  5. Richard says:

    This is a ticking bomb I feel, it is the same type of “gentlemens agreement” that Scott Duxbury had with Kia Joorabchian over the torn up contract, and we were totally lambasted for that, maybe to the tune of £30m.

    Hypocritical parasites, worst losers ever in sport – sheffield united.

  6. Stuart says:

    To Jon.

    Tell me what the technical difference is between Tevez playing for West ham and now playing for Man Utd in terms of third party interference?

    What is the technical difference between an ordinary loan agreement (even if it is between a club [in Teves’ case Man Utd] and the owners of his economic rights[MSI]) and the infamous clause in the Tevez/West Ham contract?

    In terms of third party interferenece there is no technical difference. So to say West Ham are ‘cheats’ is technically wrong.

    West Ham were fined £5.5m for not stating truthfully and clearly that there was the infamous clause in the contract. That should not have happend, and in my view persons responsible should have been fired on grounds of gross misconduct. But in terms of actual third party interence – there was none and is none now at Man Utd.

    So NO, West Ham are not cheats. There was no third party interference in that case.

    UNLIKE the Steve Kabba scenario – where clearly Sheff Utd DID cheat!

  7. brooking still the best says:

    You know what, it’s all bollocks.

    If West Ham are forced to pay Sheff U a penny it would be a penny to much. I still cant believe the Hammers will have to pay. If they do, the law will prove to be the ass I already believe it is! I’d rather they burn the money then give it to those scum bastards!

  8. supernumbersix says:

    Jon Says, I get everything quite clearly thank you very much and no it doesn’t hurt. If WHU are guilty again so they should be punished. I don’t have a problem with that. What is it YOU don’t get??
    Two clubs deciding between them, whether a player or players should play, is still cheating in my book – it may have nothing to do with third party agreements etc and any rules that WHU are supposed to have broken but it’s still cheating and the point is SUFC, did just that (as they did against WBA a few seasons ago, but we won’t go into that one now ). Because it happens all the time (eg tim Howard\ Man u \Everton) doesn’t mean it ain’t cheating.
    What it does say to me is that The Premiership turn a blind eye to these matters and to me, are the main culprits in this whole mess. Therefore SUFC should take it up with that organisation as should Fulham (who played against a weakened Liverpool side – it’s there in the teamsheets for that day). Fortunately most Bolton fans have let their team do the talking on the pitch as they did on Saturday and have requested that their ‘chairman’ keep his trap shut and not get involved

    As for Luton\ Rotherham et al I think in future all teams should be fined a minimum of 5 million, no, make it 30 million (I’m sure SUFC’s idea is a good one) and put them out of business in one fell swoop.

    Finally, calling him ‘Fatso Samuels’ says to me that he’s touched a raw nerve. Maybe you really DO get it and it’s you that hurts.

  9. John S says:

    Jon says that SUFC & WFC are make 2 so there was no third party interference, but he obviously does not understand the legal position in contracts. SUFC are the third party in this case as the contract is between WFC and Kabba (parties 1&2). SUFC therefore by way of a gentlemans agreement (or verbal contract – which is as binding as a written contract and proven by the arbitration hearing between WHU & SUFC) had an influence on WFC’s selection therefore breaking PL rules and effectively cheating.

  10. devo says:

    su were 10 points in front of west ham we even lost 3 nil to them with Carlos Tevez playing ,it beggers belief how he influenced that result

  11. Doc H Ball says:

    If Jon and his muckers at Sheff Utd are right and there’s no problem with the Kabba question, then why oh why did Sheff Utd deny there was such an agreement?? There clearly was, Colin Warnock said so as did the Utd and Watford web sites yet McCabe has had to lie just like our equally odious Scott Duxberry did.

    By the way Jon, ‘3rd party agreement’ is a legal term meaning an outside influence. It does not literally have to mean a 3rd independent party. There was an outside influence in kabba not playing which was clearly the agreement between the clubs not to play him in that fixture between 2 clubs in the relegation battle in the last 5 games of the season. that is the same period at issue in the Tevez case.

    I am sure we’re going to hear more about all of this. If McCabe doesn’t stand by his priciples of justice and agree to go to Lausanne, then W Ham should take legal action over the 3 points Utd gained in their game against Watford.

    When I was being brought up in the East E

  12. devo says:

    Su should sue jakielka for his handball he prolly did it on purpose so he could use his get out clause cause he didn’t want to play for a bunch of losers West Ham have paid they dues

  13. chris says:

    FORGET IT JON we wont be paying a penny coz if we do it would open up a huge can of worms in football,mark my words mate, watch what happens!!!!!!

  14. Doc H Ball says:

    Sorry, I hit submit before I was done. As I was saying…

    When I was being brought up in the East End, I was often told by my folks that the people up north were the salt of the earth. That they said things as they saw them, that they didn’t whinge or go blaming others for their own problems. Oh well, looks like Sheffield suddenly relocated in the soft south…

  15. tc says:

    Jon – only an idiot could make the comments you make.

    3rd Party influence means this – a contract between a player Kabba 1. and a club WFC 2. is unduly influenced by a side agreement between one of the 2 and a 3rd party – in this case SU and WFC. What don’t you get? That is cheating and you are bang to rights. Under tort and contract law there is an implied duty of care and verbal contracts are legal including ‘gentlemens agreements’ plastered all over the internet. The only reason this wasn’t taken to court and the only reason WH have let this drift is because of the PL agreement between clubs that they wouldn’t take each other to court.

    There is definitely a rich law, poor law operating and it all goes back to Spurs getting off from their 12 point deduction. Sugar threatened a big court case then and the PL bottled it. From that point on the precedent was set. That is why WH have complied with the continuation of this nonsense. But now is the time to put it before a real court and if it means finishing the PL so be it. You can’t have ‘arbitration’ panels deciding results of games, let alone seasons

  16. irontc says:

    Dear Jon

    The nod and the wink agreement may have been between SUFC, Kabba and Watford (which makes 3 parties) but what about all the other teams in the competition – would they have been happy with your little side deal?

    What about the ‘justice’ and ‘goodwill’ gestures spouted by your Chairman ?

    Im afraid to say that it looks like Mr Macabe in nothing less than a lying HYPORCRITE trying to blame his clubs failings on somedody else!

  17. Roshi says:

    Lets settle this in a proper football way….AND HAVE A MATCH AGAINST SHEFFIELD UTD…..DOUBLE OR QUITS!!

    Perhaps we will then see what sort of man Mcabe is.

    The TV money this would generate will pay the fine! LETS GET IT ON.

  18. Biffo the bear says:

    I should sue you all, I think I will

  19. Wellsy says:

    At the end of the day the sheffield united team and Neil Warnock are to blame for them being relegated, didn’t they lose there last eight games, a total of 24 points, thats half the points needed for most teams to stay up, easiest way to get round it, blame West Ham, considering what the players get paid they should be ashamed of themselves for losing 24 points by playing rubbish football, and it also says alot about Neil Warnock who says he would have stayed if it wasnt for this incident , well a mangager who loses you 24 points in a relagation battle, doesnt deserve to stay in my book, trouble is you didnt expect West Ham to beat Man U at old trafford , noone did, and cause Tevez scored your blaming him, if you’d beaten Wigan you wouldnt have given a second thought about all this, your a championship team and your where you belong, get over it

  20. Tony says:

    Sheff Utd supporters keep repeating the cheat word but mention Kabba and they dont want to know and try and brush it under the carpet.

    The Kabba ‘deal’ was on Watford and Sheff Utd websites, the local papers and Colin was quoted in an interview saying he had looked into it and that the contract stipulated Kabba couldn’t play.

    I even read though I can’t remember the source McCabe was quoted saying that you can’t do anything about a gentlemens agreement between the two managers.

    That sounds like cheating to me.

    It’s about time the club went on the offensive.

  21. JT says:

    All in all its down to the sheffield wimps not admitting they played so crap they deserved to go down.

  22. TrevorH says:

    Jon is a typical Sheff Utd fan that uses words like “cheat” without really understanding the meaning. Thanks to the Daily Mail who published the arbitration hearing in full last week – it was pulled after 6 hours – I have had the benefit of reading it and understanding it. There is no doubt that West Ham were as guilty as hell, including the last 3 games that Tevez played. However, we all have to move on. Sheff Utd had their fate in their own hands on the last day of the season and blew it. You cannot change history – the league table says that Sheff Utd were relegated because they had fewer points than West Ham. That was not the fault of Tevez, but the slimy rodent Warnock.

    Did the PL bottle it? Show me the precedent that deducts points from PL teams that transgress the rules.

    This is now an unholy mess with no sign of it getting resolved. It really is up to West Ham and Sheff Utd to somehow do a deal so we can move on. Whatever the rights and wrongs of the case football is the loser. If West Ham have to pay a lot of money to someone then so be it. Apart from their legal fees it should go to charity.

    Finally, if Sheff Utd were any good – and if I am truthful I would rather them in the PL any day than Wigan who have the odious pair of cheating Dave Whelan and Steve Bruce – they would be challenging for promotion. They didn’t last year and that must tell you someting.

  23. alanalandevonshire says:

    Funny that jon has not submitted again huh, makes him look like the Northern Monkey he is.

  24. Howard Ruse says:

    There is one other issue that everyone neglects.

    Dean Ashton has a league scoring record more or less a goal every other game. He was crocked on England duty in August 2006 at the beginning of the season in question. We could reasonably have expected him to score 19 goals that season which, surely, would have safely pushed us to mid-table.

    The FA appears to be encouraging The Blades in their pursuit of The Hammers. We should, in turn, be pursuing the FA for financial losses due to the points we should reasonably have accumulated, had the FA not denied us the services of Deano!

  25. Steve says:

    who can tell anyone you must pay this, the blades have there own secrets that no one has fellowed up and as they have took us up can we not take them up. Or heres another way of looking at it, we got fined 5 million and payed it to the FA . Now should the FA not of stoped sheffield and told them that they fined us and thats the end of it. How many times do we have to pay and how many people do we have to pay before this is over, if the FA havent got the b _ _ _s to stop this we should be able to take them to court . This is makeing the FA look reaily silly and if this goes on, why do we have the FA in the first place no one listens to them. McCabe and sheffield or makeing the FA look like idiots. And besides carlos there was another 10men playing it was a team not a one man show . Pay them nothing

  26. jon.london colney says:

    northern monkeys.

  27. Jon says:

    Thanks for all your kind words chaps. Devo – think you should go back to school soon to learn some English.

    Wellsy – what a crap arguement. If SUFC had 2 Argentinians playing then they might well have beaten Wigan. But they didn’t as they stuck to the rules unlike Cheats FC.

    And Samuels IS fat.

    Can’t be bothered to argue with such halfwits – particularly the brain dead Wellsy – so the next time I’ll be back on here is when the £50M cheque is in King Kev’s hand. Kerrching!!!!

  28. Steve says:

    lmao @jon well then you wont be back you wont get anything silly jon

  29. Sir Trevor says:

    Oh please please please let us draw Sheff Utd in the FA Cup – at UP.

  30. getoutofthat says:

    My favourite aspect of this whole sorry affair is the idea that we ‘cheated’ the honest pros from SU out of a lucrative Premier League career!
    When we got relegated we were asset stripped pretty comprehesibly, pretty quickly.
    Joe Cole, Glen Johnson, Jermain Defoe Michael Carrick etc…
    These players have gone on to win Championships, FA Cups and the Champions League.
    But that’s what happens when you get relegated. Your good players get plucked away.
    Sheffield United got relegated and what happened? Queues around the block for these stout yeomen cheated of their destiny?
    By my reckoning it’s Jagielka to Everton.
    Phil Jagielka.
    That’s all that surviving Premier League teams saw as worthwhile from their squad.
    That’s why they got relegated. They weren’t very good. That’s the truth.
    Let them have the money. They need it much more than we do…

  31. Ronamatroid says:

    If this arbitration panel is “independant” i.e. separate from the PL, then who is going to enforce the fine? the law courts? i don’t think so, they will just throw it out as the ludicrous waste of time that it has proved to be. The Kaba incident, Deano injured on England duty all have their place in this argument, but at the end of the day, football is a TEAM sport, and Tevez, or Pele would not be able to win a game on his own. Surely the spine of the team who rolled up their sleeves during the run of games at the end of the season deserve some credit? Green, Ferdinand, Noble, Zamora, did they not play their part.
    I think that Jon is very short sighted and biased. Although I support West Ham, I can still look at this objectively and realise what a dangerous precident this would set. Who knows what teams will do in the future if things don’t go their way.
    Intelligence is a great asset when writing about these things, the ability to see both sides is essential. Shame that Jon has proved that he (or she) is severly lacking in this department.

  32. The Headmaster says:

    Sheffield United – in the CCC where they belong.

    Warnock is a bitter and twisted has been who can’t accept his own ineptitude but has now found a more realistic level for his alleged talents.

    No idea when it will end. Most likely quite some way to go yet, particularly if WHU are ordered to pay big spons; it simply cannot be taken laying down and it will not be.

    Jon, it may be a gas for you to come on here and start throwing arbitrary figures from fantasy land around but if you even half as clever as the sanctimonious tone in your offerings implies you might be, then you will realise that it is just a pipe dream for Sheffield United and their embittered ranks. What is really interesting now is that one senses a sea change in the national mood – many more commentators are now starting to realise the folly of trying to affect relegation issues in courts and can see the potential for the floodgates to open with every club that feels it has some sort of grievance effectively holding the sporting world to ransom. It won’t happen in the end; trust me. xx

  33. chris says:

    you wont get jack s–t your 1st division, your not comin up so get on with it plonker,yeah and why would you of beaten wigan with 2 argies what kind of arguments that!!!!! I didnt think macherano or tevez were that good anyway green kept us up not these two.PLUM

  34. Doone mccabe says:

    Am i right in saying that all this is because Kia/msi could have interfered with a game somehow? (Which we all know never happened or would have happened)which makes this a mere technicality
    Surely this third party involvement could also happen in every loan deal that has ever happened??
    Are you SU fans really deluded enough to honestly believe that Tevez got you relegated,did your manager/team not have anything to do with it?They all got away with just blaming Tevez and you lot bought it.

    Also how are SU going to actually claim any money which because of the massive amounts involved (30mill/50mill now believed to be around 4billion)would have to be done through the high court which have already rejected SU claim.Good luck with that

    The best alround solution would be for the West Ham board to buy SU (probably loads cheaper than 50 mill) and bulldoze it job done.

  35. Roshi says:

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again…..”You cannot have a case built on assumptions” If this went to high court it would be thrown out for lack of information, built around the assumption that one man in an 11 man team was the difference between winning and losing.
    We have been fined for the initial irregularity by the governing body, The FA.

    Sheffields case is against the FA not WHU.

  36. 10No06 says:

    I see warnock is doing a great job at Palace I wonder who he can blame for that team’s lack of performance. SU fans you Jon in particular look and sound like pathetic crybabies – you know as well as anyone your team, manager and chairman blew it big time so blame west ham all you like but lets face it you wasn’t good enough never had been never will be, your a little team with little minds and little going for you. The only big things about Sheffield United is the chip on your shoulder and the mouth on you.

    High courts are independent they threw you out why won’t you go to Lausanne same reason.

    COYI and up the Wednesday

  37. irontc says:

    Yes maybe bulldozing SUFC is the answer.

    OR when our new Indian owner takes over he could turn it into a giant quickie mart.

  38. tc says:

    Once again Jon the blade proves what a complete imbecile he is – ‘Can’t be bothered to argue with such halfwits’ in an email in which he is! Come on come clean – are you such a sheep following ‘King Kev’ that you see no fault with the players you had and the manager? Do you see no danger in ‘arbitration’ panels deciding football results? Obviously that one won’t go through your thick skull until you’re on the receiving end of this rubbish.

    And as I’ve explained correctly what 3rd party influence is – do you still think your occupy the moral highground?

  39. Steve says:

    Doone you have the answer and its so simple, and there would be no more talk of this ever again

  40. ironsmith says:

    The FA for once in their pathetic lives should show some bottle and authority here and order Sheffield United to withdraw all claims against West Ham with immediate effect or relegate them to the Conference. We can not have club fighting club like this- where does it all end? The FA are destroying the game as we know it by allowing these losers to get this far with their dubious claims. West Ham have been punished already- end of story!
    I am sure FIFA will be keeping an eye here and they are not averse to correcting their member associations when they fall short of the mark as is the case in this debacle.

  41. Roy says:

    Great idea. Buy the club for £30M and rename it Squeal City.

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